Podcast Ep 04 – Tomás O’Leary, Chief Executive, Origina

Podcast Ep 03 - Tomas O'Leary, Chief Executive, Origina
Listen On Google Podcast Button

Podcast Episode Transcript – Tomás O’Leary, Chief Executive, Origina

Mark Cahalane  

Hello and welcome to A Pivotal Moment, a podcast series about ordinary people who made extraordinary decisions both in their business and personal lives. I’m Mark Cahalane and in this episode, I’ll be talking to Tomás O’Leary, who set up his first business when he was in school and went on to establish a global multimillion euro enterprise, Origina. Tomás is also a major influencer in the global right to repair movement. Tomás, you’re very welcome. Maybe let’s start by telling us a little bit about your background. Your family where you grew up. 

Tomás O’Leary 

Delighted to be here, Mark, thanks for inviting me. Tomás O’Leary is my name. I live in Rathgar, Dublin 6 all my life. Born in Ranelagh, brought up in Terenure, then Rathmines. Ranelagh area. Didn’t move very far, obviously. Dublin 6 Boy. Primary School in Scoil Bhride, Oakley Road in Ranelagh. All Irish speaking school. And then went down the road to Gonzaga College. 

Mark Cahalane  

And Thomas, I know you set up a business when you’re in university, which will come to. Actually, you set up a business when you were in school. 

Tomás O’Leary 

Well, you could call it that, yeah, I think. I’ve always been a little bit of an entrepreneur in my DNA. I suspect. As a young fella. One of the first things I remember doing, that has nothing to do with business. Was… it wasn’t a paper, and it was a delivery of invoices or bills for the local chemist and… Whatever the fee. I can’t remember what the exact fee was. It was pennies. Whatever it was at the time. Per drop on a Sunday for the local chemist, and I remember I had to do too many, and I got two buddies of mine locally to take on some of the work and I didn’t actually tell them the full fee I was getting and I had to pay me off for everyone that they dropped. So that was my first time when the starting margin. And then I remember in school we did… Because I later realised the thing you talked about in in university, I got about doing discos and the kind of events, the first event when we were 10. Or 11 there. Was a bunch of us in primary school in Scoil Bhride. Made a we did a disco, which was a big deal at the time. I we had it. We charged a fee in to our classmates and a couple of their pals came along. So yeah, so I kind of guess I’ve been a business person in my kind of blood. I suspect he was there anyway at that instinct. 

Mark Cahalane  

Where did it come from? Do you think was there anything in your family background or was it you yourself? Where did the interest come from? 

Tomás O’Leary 

No. My father was in An Garda Siochana and he became assistant Commissioner. So, went up through the ranks. So, he was effectively a civil servant. My mother was, as all mothers were in the in the 1970s and 80s, a housewife. For a long period and then she… She already had… Maybe some of it comes from her. When she got later in life, she got involved in China restoration and set up her own business with a couple of friends and Rathmines fixing porcelain and China. And she did lots of interesting work, actually, but they never made a lot of money at it. It wasn’t a money spinner. So yeah, I don’t know where that came from, to be honest with you, it seems to be in my extended family as well. Everybody has their own has a business. There’s very few people who are doctors and lawyers in my kind of extended family. So certainly on my mother’s side, which would be a large, large family, she came from Co. Tipperary. They’re all business people through and through, you know, whether they’re in the pub. Because some of them are publicans in the pub business, restaurant business. Some of them were involved in… In various kind of local businesses all around the country and even overseas. So, it seems to be in the DNA I suspect. 

Mark Cahalane  

So you’re in university. You’re looking out at the world, and you’re obviously going to go into business and nothing else. What type of business did you want to go into?  

Tomás O’Leary 

I think when I went to university, I wasn’t thinking about business. I’ll be honest with you, even though I did a business degree, I think I did it. I did a degree… so back a little bit. I went to Trinity because most of my classmates went to UCD so I was always kind of trying to do something different.  So that was kind of in my DNA. If somebody went one way… I’d try to go the other way and show that I could do it so that was that was a kind of a desire to do something a little bit different always, even though that may not sound very different going to Trinity versus UCD.  

But to me, at the time when you have got 50 classmates and 40 something of them are going to UCD and it’s a handful of us went to Trinity. So, I was going to Trinity. If I could get in and regardless, and I was lucky enough to get enough points to get into Trinity.  I wasn’t particularly academic. You know, you wouldn’t have said, oh, that guy. I doubt people in Gonzaga would said, oh yeah, Tomás O’Leary is going to be a success, necessarily. Certainly not from an academic perspective, but I was smart enough and I knew when to apply myself and I found when I got involved in businesses, I really enjoy. And actually.  I found I was really good at it, you know. I was good at organising, I was very thorough. I was diligent things that I wasn’t, I suspect as good as when I was doing the academic side of things. And I had a desire to. Do it right. You know, so that that kind of thing was in, in me from the very beginning. 

Mark Cahalane  

And I’m interested Tomás just going back there. When you said when you were in university, you weren’t actually thinking going into business, where other things you were weighing up at that stage? 

Tomás O’Leary 

No, I think when I went, I went to university at 19. And I was. Only. Sorry. What age was Iin 1988? I would have been actually 17 when I went to Trinity first so. 17 in Trinity.  I don’t think I was thinking of anything other than you know, you know, having a good time. I don’t know what 17 year olds or 18 year olds think about today, but I wasn’t thinking of a career. I wasn’t thinking of anything. That starts to creep in as you get closer. To the to the end of the period. I mean, yes, there were people in university. There were things like those. Milk rounds and companies came in, but. It was never on. My radar and I never felt. Actually, those sort of companies, I never really. Wanted to be. A corporate citizen. I’d always kind of looked at those things and said. I wouldn’t do that. I’d try something different. So when I finished university then I that’s I decided to go overseas and. Maybe learn a language. So I went to ended up going to France for a few years after college and that’s where I kind of cut my teeth in the business world. 

Mark Cahalane  

Really what did you do there? 

Tomás O’Leary 

Worked for a travel company over there. A very successful, fast growing travel company called GTA. They were private company owned by a couple of very interesting people 3/3. Guys with two initially came out of them. Uh, Iran. They left Iran at the fall of the Shah and came to Europe and started organising holidays for Israelis. Initially and coming to Europe and they put it up with a Japanese guy and then they created a Asian arm and was all inbound travel into Europe. So they were organised and everything from hotels, coaches, long distance coaches, local coaches. Guides assistance restaurant. Museum entrance. Everything but the flights back then. So this is this is. Way before the. Introduction. That was my first time getting. Involved in the company. I had no experience brought in there and I was very quickly given responsibility for a bunch of different markets. So that basically was organised by markets and so inbound from. Asia, from Japan was one market inbound from the rest of Asia and including Hong Kong and Southeast Asia. Was no market. Inbound from Israel and then inbound from rest of the world. That was kind of how it. And they gave me everything very quickly, like within 8-9 or ten months of working there. They gave me ownership of every market except for Japan and then eventually they gave me part of the Japanese market as well and. I found that I was actually really good at organising things I had a. Really good. Kind of. Skill set of knowing what had to be done just instinctively and I was very highly competitive. Something that I wasn’t really in all walks of life. I was so those. Days you can remember. The 80s and 90s, the biggest market in the world, and everybody looked up to the Japanese, so here I am working with loads of Japanese. I’m looking around the room and thinking. I can work harder than these guys, so I did I was mad like I used to stay in the office till the last Japanese left. Then they would late stay late, could be till midnight. 1:00 o’clock in the morning. And I would. Not every single day, because I was when I was on the lads with the beers. But most days I’d make sure I was back in the office before they turned up. 

Mark Cahalane  

Where did that come? From yes. Good question that that’s I don’t. 

Tomás O’Leary 

Know where that came from, but if I’m. Perfectly honest with you. I’ve asked myself that many times and. I it’s a. It’s a deep desire. So it’s kind of hard to explain how do you it’s when I look at sports people, I actually really understand where they come from, where that that kind of. We desire to, to succeed and to win. And that’s absolutely my DNA. 

Mark Cahalane  

So corporate athlete. 

Tomás O’Leary 

Maybe. Yeah. Without. Yeah, without the physique. 

Mark Cahalane  

So you’re there for four years in France. 

Tomás O’Leary 

I was there. It always seems like longer when you’re younger, I think. Sure. You know, you know everything seems, you know, one year seems like a lifetime. And I think I was there for three years from about, so I left university in 92 went. Eventually left to. Harris kind of kind of the autumn of 92 and left in May 95 to join IBM. 

Mark Cahalane  

Why IBM was that just chance? Or were you particularly interested in working? 

Tomás O’Leary 

I wasn’t particularly working IBM I. In fact, I plan to go to Japan with the company I was working with GTA and invited me to go to Japan. I had done some really good work with them and I had a bit of a sponsor within the organisation. The Co kind of senior directors out in Japan took a took a liking to the work I was doing. He’d offered me a position out there, but I actually had a what? I didn’t realise this is something that I would recommend everybody to get at it as soon as you can in your career. But I found it by accident. I got a menu. And he was a business guy called Mr. or in France, Monsieur, for Akawa. He was a in the travel business. And I worked with him and he was I take. The time he might have been in. Similarly, so I am now. Maybe it’ll be younger, maybe late 40s. Early 50s and. He took me under his wing without even me realising I didn’t, really. Fully appreciate it. It’s was many, many years later that I appreciated while he was there. He was helping me. We were. Doing business together, we got on well. And then I remember the time I was offered the position, the position I got offered, by the way, was just a graduate recruitment, so it was less money than I was currently on. It would have been less money that would have been making in Japan. It was part of a grouping programme. So then they. Also be their job and I was like oh. My God, what am I? Going to do and I didn’t know what to do because I was really happy. I kind of. It’s like as I. Said 2-3 years seems like an awful long time at that age and I was settled in. Paris was prepared to go to Japan if I needed to. I really enjoyed the company, but for the Khalistan said to me, if you stay in this industry. It is an industry being around. Long time OK travelling straight whereas the technology industries new industry is the biggest company in the world and industry as IBM I said you will regret not take that opportunity. My advice to take that opportunity, and I took his advice and left Paris and came back to Ireland. I trusted his judgement and I took his advice on board. As was a wise thing. 

Mark Cahalane  

Do you trust easily in business? 

Tomás O’Leary 

I do. Yeah. I think I do. I sometimes too easily. I would have in the past and a lesson I definitely learned from being in businesses that you. Who need to be careful who you trust? Because I’ve been let down by people who have trusted in the past. So now I really. Use that as my barometer. That’s my first and foremost barometer of who I would engage with. And if I don’t feel I can trust them, I will not do business with them. Doesn’t matter. You know what? Who they are, or what they’ve where they’ve come from. Similar to unlikability, you like somebody cause that’s connected to trust, but yeah, and it’s hard to trust people you’ve never. We’ve only met a short period of time, but my instinct is getting better. You know if. I think I think. You can sniff these things out a little bit. Easier as you get older. Certainly I would have been far too trusting as a younger man I would have trusted my own ability regardless of the situation, to get through stuff, and that’s doesn’t work really it doesn’t work on its own. 

Mark Cahalane  

So we’re seeing an early experience with business from your childhood a very strong competitive nature in the in the world. Trust is really important, and now you’re in IBM. So where did you start and what was? That all like. 

Tomás O’Leary 

I started working with the retail. They had just won a deal at the time to automate the countertop automation on. Post, which was kind of. Effectively retail there, you know. Or stroke banking fixed with simple banking and retail platform. They put rolled out to all the post offices in Ireland and around the same around that time IBM brought out a computer till there was a basic PC was a DOS based or windows based TPC at the time. So this is kind of kind of 9697 maybe 96 and. They gave it to me and I was like little bit. And then like because I worked in travel industry, immunity by technology and quite honestly. I’d still probably nothing about technology. So I get the tail and the guys go and I go. This looks great. It’s like a integrated tail. So before then you get you. What you do is you got a PC and you got a mark, a credit card scanner and you got a plugged in a bar code. Theatre. And you gotta screen. And that was your tail effectively. And they weren’t designed to work in a in a shop floor because you know the spillage and there’s all sorts of things and they could break and there’s wires. So they brought out this new tail which is integrated. So it looks like 1 unit, right? So and they see you still see them in shops around the place and they gave me this thing and said. So could you go and sell this thing? So great? How does it work? Well, it doesn’t. You need some software. So he makes the software. This is. My first experience of software, well, we don’t make it at 9:00 PM I said OK, So what? To do so literally, I was like walking home that very day, but like. My father has apartment. In Milltown and I was walking from near Burlington Road or Pembroke Road and to back through Vanilla and there was a spa in Ranelagh at the time. And I think it’s still there. Maybe it was called, it was the spirit of the year of 19. 95 or something. 

Mark Cahalane  

OK. 

Tomás O’Leary 

I remember going into this bar and asking to see could I talk to anyone responsible and the guy in the in this bar, I think he was the manager or maybe the owner. I’m not sure what he was. He brought me into the. Backroom, which was. Covered with magazines and books and stocks and boxes. We sat in chairs not on like this and this. They said, oh, and I gave him my business card by working with the Japanese as well. Was very important how you gave your business cards and I still do it to this day. So give my business card, which is a big deal to me. And he looks business card and sees IBM. And of course, oh, IBM. OK, so that Dan and I said I’d love to learn more about the retail industry. And what’s you know, I’m trying to, I was expecting trying to find the software companies but didn’t want to ask that question straight. I didn’t want to go straight out with the. Long story short, he was magazines on the table. He goes. You should talk to these guys shelf life for checkout magazine or Edmonton Leary got in touch with them and became their for short period. Their agony aunt on technology, they don’t think on technology, but let’s meet in areas that I’ll be your agony and. And so writing, uh, uh questions that a retailer would. So I officially wrote the questions and got some colleagues that I’ve met who were experts on technology in the UK to give you the answers. And the first episode or first edition I was my questions and their answers. And then people started writing to me. So it’s some retailer in Castle Bar kind of sending me a letter in the post and somebody else from. And you know from terrorists and else all over the country, we were people are sending letters to more soldiery, in, in, in IBM. They’re not huge numbers, but enough, and from that then the software companies come and touch me and they were interested because they had seen. They read it as well. Suddenly and obviously my PM and I know the blue, then a bunch of these software companies come in and start you sort of rolling. When they were winning their deals, they’d win a deal. You know, whether it’s with a spa or chain or with Mace or any other simple groups or even kind of domestic retailers who are below the level of the big international guys. They started using the. Tail. So I think that’s I think at. One stage I sold more in Ireland at one point than anywhere else in Europe cause I don’t think they sold any. They didn’t have to sell them. 

Mark Cahalane  

And Thomas, you, you said a moment ago you weren’t particularly. I don’t. You didn’t say I’m not interested, but you weren’t an expert. Technology. What is it about you that enabled you to be a success? 

Tomás O’Leary 

That scepticism actually, when you’re not an expert in something, you’re constantly questioning it. I think if you’re an expert in something, you’re you can’t. You can’t tell people how good you are, so I always think of myself not an expert, so I’m constantly questioning why? Why, why do you do it that way? Why is it? Why does what software cost so much? How come this? You know the top five richest guys in the world are all from technology companies. You know this, this, this industry isn’t around as long, you know, I mean, some of the stuff I do with the some of the lobby organisations that work with, it’s about questioning the industry. So I think I think that’s. One of the things that makes me different. 

Mark Cahalane  

And there’s a strong sense of a restlessness about you almost in your career. You’re, you’re puzzled. And you, you like to go your own way. So you know, there’s the expression you never get fired for hire hiring IBM. Hmm. When did you begin to think about making your own move into your own business? 

Tomás O’Leary 

I wanted to be the leader. I guess and. I wanted to be the one making the decisions and even if they were the wrong decisions, I wanted to be the one that makes the decisions and I enjoy that. Still, that’s one of the things I really enjoy about the work I do today is I make decisions and then. Seeing them come. Mostly on all this. Just make, but mostly to some sort of level of fruition. And that. Gives you low confidence and then you can make the next decision and that’s what business life is. It’s a series of decisions. 

Mark Cahalane  

When did you decide you were going? Out on your own? And how did that happen? 

Tomás O’Leary 

It was chance an opportunity came for me to get involved in the business that was going to. Be partnered by. IBM’s and I took us got involved in it in by 1998. I think it was, yeah, 98 and. I had been. Instrumental in setting up IBM’s channel, so I learned from that helping people to sell that till to then they said OK, why don’t you try and help people to sell wider range of IBM products. That was a bit more. Challenging and one of the things. They needed were partners. And have found a company in the UK. They found the guy locally here. It was a reseller business. We bought stuff from IBM. With the customers that was the route to markets. We started developing skills around certain areas of technology and but it was a simple kind of agency, kind of like what they call in the industry value at a reseller. But we wouldn’t. We weren’t making anything. Or someone else. We were, we were, we were basically buying someone else’s technology represent them in the market. And some of that sell, selling it, selling it to the customers. I mean some, some cases, they’re gonna buy it anyway from somebody. And some cases we genuinely to try and convince them to buy IBM’s for assistant, buying somebody else’s. 

Mark Cahalane  

Did you enjoy that initially? 

Tomás O’Leary 

Yeah, I did enjoy it initially, but then it got to the stage where it didn’t really enjoy it because it didn’t feel very fulfilling. It felt like just the business. And so after a while you kind of a I was a desire to do something different. It didn’t feel very different, and it ended up perhaps because that was maybe. I was not as focused on as it got itself into a little bit of difficulty as some businesses can and we ended up being removed from the IBM programme, couldn’t sell the technology anymore and that caused the catalyst to really, oh God, I actually could be serious trouble here. Like the business was failing under my nose. And had gone from being a business with about 40 staff like to downsize it pretty quickly and we then at the same time we had a recession in the country, this is gone 2009, 2010 and 2011. In that period where it was. Really tricky so. I had to try and do something different, but that catalyst to what I do now. I think I’m very grateful for that. 

Mark Cahalane  

It sounds like your back is very much against the wall as you look back on that now, what did you learn from that experience? 

Tomás O’Leary 

I think I learned about more and more about myself than anybody else. I learned about my who I who, who I could go back to. You talked early about who you could trust. That’s really critical. OK, but when your back is against the wall, you look around, you say, who are the? People that will support you and it’s clearly number one, they call it my #1 fan as my wife. So Leona would. Be absolutely critical in that journey. The support that she gave me during. That the challenge of trying to figure out how do I get herself out of this situation? You know, the business was massively in debt technically probably. In any other circumstance, should have been closed down, but I managed to save it and so I think that then what you do then when you get. Through that is you. Aaron, God, actually, I have some skill set here because everybody entrepreneur has to know what makes them good. You have to understand what makes you good at your job without necessarily being too arrogant about it. You gotta have. Feet on the floor, but if you don’t understand. What you’re actually. Good at and. Really, that’s the bit you got to. Leverage and for me. It was about the ability to. Spot around me for some of my very close friends who really stood by me, particularly my wife I mentioned and they’re in business the business. Because we have a separate set of friends that that really some of them stepped up to the plate, to our mutual friend Jimmy Fisher, for example, people like Jimmy, who would have, you know. Whatever you been asked kind. Of brought me to beat people to. Try and help me you. Know and then. You figure it out. It’s not, and it’s not a. Perfect process, not science, it’s. Not like, oh, you go from A to BC. Isn’t that way. What happens is you go, you’re A and you’re trying to get to wherever. I get to. But you’ve got to make a decision. What do I do next? And I found myself. I’ll give you an example. Jimmy brought me to see a guy who ran and told me see company and got a favourite on a guy called Ken Fennell, who ran cabinet panel I think was one of. That part of the Lord and can run the numbers on my company. Dead Man walking was what he called. But he will report. And he was giving me the thing, and I was holding my hand. And I said, of course, I couldn’t afford. And he has a favourite, Jimmy. He just was a. Kind of A2 pager, I said. Can I can I? Take this and he. Goes. Yeah, so I took it out. And that was the report. But I used I. Went to get myself out of trouble. Because I needed evidence to show. That I was in. I was in really bad shape. I need to buy time with creditors. I needed to buy time with my staff. I needed to figure out what they’re gonna. Too, and I had to take a lot of pain and tiredness go to taking pain. And was, you know. And so I think when you discover all those things about yourself, it’s what pulls you through those who give you the confidence that when the next because there always are challenges when the next challenge will be different, it might not be bankruptcy, but you’re going to come. Across the challenge. You’re in your career. Whether it’s maybe the people you’ve hired or maybe it’s just the business isn’t growing the way it was, or maybe you’ve overstretched yourself. You know, deep down that actually you have. The ability to get to South. Out of the situation. 

Mark Cahalane  

Can you remember what the emotion was for you during that period? What were you feeling? Were you? Were you afraid? What were you? What was motivating you? What was going on? 

Tomás O’Leary 

No, no, they’re not. Not afraid. No, never. I was never afraid. In fact, I was quite calm about. Those things and. It was anger. Anger was the biggest emotion and. And it. Yeah, like guys in the office would say that most people know me well enough. They know I love a good fight. You know, so I I’m up for. Up for us? You know, give me a situation where my back is against the wall and you know I’ll come out fighting. 

Mark Cahalane  

And as you. Look back to Mars. Was that an evolution into original? Was it a pivotal moment? How did you get? 

Tomás O’Leary 

There no, I don’t think there was a pivotal moment per say necessarily. I think all of these things are always in. There, there were moments that you said, OK, that’s I could look back and say that that that was a transformational moment. You know that one I mentioned about being given the, the, the. The document that that that gave me a key to unlock the pressure was going to be on for creditors and then. Later in life. You know, and the opportunity to come across people who could help me. You know, they were pivotal moment people I met along the way who were prepared to help me out. So, so many people have helped us in our business. You know, it’s not. It’s not just me, by the way. I’m, I’m. And the leader of the business. But you know, I want to know who my partner. Yeah, the people who’ve helped him and me and the business and all the other people have joined us since Brandon Walsh and my friends and Jimmy was on part of the team because we’ve got some we’ve got a great team. And but you get to a place I think where you find you trust these people and you trust yourself and you then can. There’s a little bit of rinse and repeat because you can know you can do it again, but you’ve always gotta be learning it. You know, you gotta be. You gotta be, you know, and what? The business I have now remember I used to be the only sales. I now have a wholesale I don’t sell anymore. I’ve had different role. You gotta be prepared to change your job because you don’t change your job. By the way, the job will somewhere else it’ll. Be changed for you. 

Mark Cahalane  

And tell us just before we finish your a leading influence here in the whole right to repair movement you’ve been into, you’ve met Congressman. You’ve been into the. EU what is? It that drives you about that issue. 

Tomás O’Leary 

I think it’s a human issue, to be honest with you. It’s a human issue related to the impact of technology on the planet, the. The fact that there’s 00 regulation in an industry. You know, but you can’t you. Can’t even do anything even in this room here. There’s some regulations around what you’re doing and how you do stuff. Health and safety technology industry for years. No. Right, no. No rules. They make up their own rules. Particular software. They can change the license terms, they can come and auto companies. They can they call all the shots. To me, that goes back to, like, my founding kind of motivation. The big guy beating up the small guy. And I just, I don’t like that. You know, I don’t like bullies and I decided to get involved and talk to legislators about it and say, listen, do you think? This is fair and you know. The funny thing is, they kind of you can’t. It’s impossible to. Thank you that this is fair. OK, you there is protection of intellectual property rights and this protection that we want innovation. 

Mark Cahalane  

So of course we do. 

Tomás O’Leary 

But we don’t want, you know, the situation where we’ve people monopolising industries and making super profits and ultimately them dictating how the. It’s wrong, you know? So when I talk to European legislators, I say, you know, these, there’s 470 million people here in Europe. These companies come into. The market see, these are. You know you are the you are. The legislators of this market. You do need to decide on what basis they come in with the moment still way around. They’re deciding on the basis. And I don’t I don’t. Agree with that. I think it needs. To be needs to be needs to encourage. You know, you know European businesses and all businesses, but at least be done fairly and I think that’s what, that’s what I’ve done there. I’ve also found that, which was not the reason I did it in the 1st place, but why I probably stayed involved and still involved. It really helps my business as well. So it helps me get a profile that I wouldn’t otherwise get and I would encourage any entrepreneurs to try and think just outside the box. Don’t just do your own business. Get involved in in other areas, I think you’ll get like a huge words from. 

Mark Cahalane  

Us, as you look back at all to us, is there anything you do differently now? 

Tomás O’Leary 

I’d love to have more time with my family, my wife, but my friends I miss things that I can’t do, but then you can’t do this and have that. So I don’t know. Don’t think I’d do anything differently. Really. 

Mark Cahalane  

And finally, any advice to anyone who has that? Question in their own head about setting up on their. 

Tomás O’Leary 

Own just do it. Make the decision back yourself. Don’t class tonight. The only way to actually know you’re gonna be any good at something that’s actually going to do it and that’s what. You get the confidence from. 

Mark Cahalane  

Thank you very much. You’ve been listening to a pivotal moment. My name is Mark Cahalan. I help businesses tell compelling stories to engage their stakeholders. I Coach senior business leaders on systemic change and leadership. I partner business teams to help them drive high performance and when business relationships go wrong. I help them all negotiate better ways of working together. You can find out more on my take on these topics at marteloleadership.com. 

 

Leave a Comment

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *

Scroll to Top